Christ, and I thought I only had to worry about anonymous posters on the Blizzard forums.
Okay, let's take your statements point by point.
Sprint? Five minute timer, lasts 15 seconds. And without the Improved Sprint talent, you don't break any movement debuffs on you. With it, you only break them at the moment you activate Sprint, so if another is reapplied, you're still screwed. Now, does every other class have a movement debuff or root or fear effect that can keep us from getting in melee range where we can do damage? Why, yes. Is Crippling Poison the only movement debuff that relies not only on being in melee range but on proccing? Why, yes. Sure, Hamstring (Warrior ability) requires melee range, but if it hits (i.e. isn't dodged or parried), then it affects the target. We have to not only be in melee range, we have to hit and hope the poison procs. And if you don't have Crippling poison on your weapon(s), you can't slow them at all.
Immune to magic? I wasn't asking for that. We have a talent now, deep in the Subtlety tree that lets us dodge some magical effects, but at best, it's a 4% chance. As for stunlock, it's a lot harder to do then people think. And if anything goes wrong in the stunlock, like a stun being resisted, a hit missing (yes, stuns can miss), then it's over. We're hit with Fear (Priests, Warlocks) or Frost Nova or Polymorph (Mages), and then they back up and tool us. For a stunlock to work, every part of it has to be perfect. And in the case you mentioned, yes, two rogues can tool a single healer. But hey, that's two on one. I daresay two Paladins or two Druids could tool any healer.
Infinite energy? Did I ask for that? No. But Vigor, as a 31 point talent, is very weak. It's sole purpose is to get you to 120 when you have 5/8 Bloodfang. It would be far better if it was +20 Energy and it didn't stack with the Bloodfang bonus.
Best DPS? You're right, we should have that. We're in leather armor. We have less armor and hps then any other class that has to go into melee. We tend to be healed less because all the focus is (and really, should be) on the main tank. But right now, our DPS is being challenged by Fury Warriors who can off-tank by thowing a shield on. Hunters can deal very good DPS as well, and they don't have to be in range of PBAOEs, Cleaves, and other lovely melee effects. Thus, they avoid a lot of the repair bills that rogues end up having to pay.
A complete heal? Did I ask for that? No. Doesn't make sense for us to have one, either. Fear immunity? Did I ask for that? No. Doesn't make sense for us to have it. Would it be nice if we had a talent that gave us an increased chance to resist fear? Sure. It would take the sting out of Deathcoil a little. It would partially address our kiteability as well.
You know what buffs I would like to see for Rogues?
Increased resistence to poison effects. No idea if this would have to be a straight buff to Nature resistance, or if it could be narrowed down to just poisons, but considering we use poisons every day, we should be at least slightly more resistent to their effects.
A Rogue's mark. Hunter's have one. Why not Rogues? Serves a dual purpose. 1) It lets party/raid members know which mob is getting sapped/ambushed/cheap shotted/whatever, and 2) it could be a party/raid buff similar to Hunter's Mark, where the Rogue's Mark adds melee AP to anyone attacking the marked mob.
Non-nature poisons. It's incredibly annoying to have part of our DPS supposedly based on the fact that we use poisons, and then have entire instances that are largely poison resistant/immune.
When in melee range, no class can keep a player incapacitated like a rogue. Rogues have kidney shot, gouge, crippling poison, and sap (did I forget any?). Mages have poly and frost nova. Warlocks have fear, death coil, and seduce. Warriors have intercept and hamstring. Shaman have earthbind. Druids have roots and bash (IF they can shift into bear form and it isn't dodged). Priests have fear and MC. Hunters have wing clip and concussion shot. Paladins have hammer of lameness.
Every class has a trade off for their CC abilities. It seems you want no trade off. Rogues can vanish to remove movement impairment effects now. You don't like that it's on a 5 minute timer? It would be overpowered if it wasn't.
The +10 energy bonus is on Nightslayer, not Bloodfang. I'm starting to wonder if you actually play a rogue.
One last thing, I would advise you not make comments about druids, considering your previous comment about bear form. It's obvious to me you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about.
Fine, Nightslayer, I don't have either. But it still stands. Vigor is useless as a 31-pt. talent unless you have that stuff.
The problem with our CC abilities is that unless you're a stunlock rogue, it's practically impossible to stunlock a player. Plus, with the exception of Blind (which, I would like to point out is on a five minute timer and requires a reagent, so it's not like it's an "any time I want to" CC ability), none of them have any range at all.
Sap, if we're lucky, lasts for 10 seconds. Usually it lasts for less. And with it and Gouge, any damage breaks it. Compare that to Fear effects, where it seems it never breaks before the rogue is dead. Polymorph breaks on damage too, but it's basically the signal for the mage to back up to 30 yards and nuke us from orbit.
Our trade off, as you put it, is that we have to be in melee range to apply any of our CC abilities (except for Blind). Except that every class has easier applied ways to keep us out of melee range.
Warriors don't. Hunters get one trap every 30 seconds or something (haven't played a hunter long enough to get traps). The cloth casters, if they are on their game, can own anyone.
The role of the rogue in a group is DPS. Not CC. If it was supposed to be CC, then yes, you would suck at it. You provide some optional CC, but it's typically not required. Does it make certain parts easier? Sure. Just like having a good tank does.
The job of the rogue in a group is to, after the tank has good and pissed off the monster, get in and kill it quickly before the tank expires. I have seen footage of five rogues in an instance destroying things massively. Yes, they did need a number of reagents, potions, etc., in order to get through, but it was still brutal.
Well, Intimidating Shout can be used every three minutes. It's a bit more often the Sprint, Vanish, Blind or Evasion.
And see, that's my point on Rogue's CC. It's great if it's a one-on-one situation. Because we have a few options if one should run out early (like they do, frequently) or if they're resisted. But I can't recall the last time I saw one-on-one PvP. The BGs do not 'encourage' it.
And yes, five rogues working together can destroy all kinds of things. But look at that... five rogues. You know, I daresay you could replace it with five mages, or five warlocks, or five hunters or five fury warriors and it would be just as destroyed. Maybe a few seconds later. And in the case of everyone but the five fury warriors, they wouldn't have to worry about being healed.
We have to get in close, just like warriors, but we have much less survivability, in terms of armor and hps. If, somehow, we end up with aggro, we're dead. Yes, we have Feint and Vanish, but Feint can miss and Vanish is still buggy. Even if we don't end up with aggro, far too many mobs in end-game have PBAOEs or Cleaves, and we're not the first choices to be healed by the priests/shamans/pallies/druids.
Actually, the five fury warriors would probably be owned. Given that you are almost required to be in berserker stance, you are taking more damage.
Five warlocks, maybe, maybe not. As soon as one draws aggro, he's toast. Five mages? Well, I've seen how fast they run through mana. So unless they've got something else, they are doomed.
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Okay, let's take your statements point by point.
Sprint? Five minute timer, lasts 15 seconds. And without the Improved Sprint talent, you don't break any movement debuffs on you. With it, you only break them at the moment you activate Sprint, so if another is reapplied, you're still screwed. Now, does every other class have a movement debuff or root or fear effect that can keep us from getting in melee range where we can do damage? Why, yes. Is Crippling Poison the only movement debuff that relies not only on being in melee range but on proccing? Why, yes. Sure, Hamstring (Warrior ability) requires melee range, but if it hits (i.e. isn't dodged or parried), then it affects the target. We have to not only be in melee range, we have to hit and hope the poison procs. And if you don't have Crippling poison on your weapon(s), you can't slow them at all.
Immune to magic? I wasn't asking for that. We have a talent now, deep in the Subtlety tree that lets us dodge some magical effects, but at best, it's a 4% chance. As for stunlock, it's a lot harder to do then people think. And if anything goes wrong in the stunlock, like a stun being resisted, a hit missing (yes, stuns can miss), then it's over. We're hit with Fear (Priests, Warlocks) or Frost Nova or Polymorph (Mages), and then they back up and tool us. For a stunlock to work, every part of it has to be perfect. And in the case you mentioned, yes, two rogues can tool a single healer. But hey, that's two on one. I daresay two Paladins or two Druids could tool any healer.
Infinite energy? Did I ask for that? No. But Vigor, as a 31 point talent, is very weak. It's sole purpose is to get you to 120 when you have 5/8 Bloodfang. It would be far better if it was +20 Energy and it didn't stack with the Bloodfang bonus.
Best DPS? You're right, we should have that. We're in leather armor. We have less armor and hps then any other class that has to go into melee. We tend to be healed less because all the focus is (and really, should be) on the main tank. But right now, our DPS is being challenged by Fury Warriors who can off-tank by thowing a shield on. Hunters can deal very good DPS as well, and they don't have to be in range of PBAOEs, Cleaves, and other lovely melee effects. Thus, they avoid a lot of the repair bills that rogues end up having to pay.
A complete heal? Did I ask for that? No. Doesn't make sense for us to have one, either. Fear immunity? Did I ask for that? No. Doesn't make sense for us to have it. Would it be nice if we had a talent that gave us an increased chance to resist fear? Sure. It would take the sting out of Deathcoil a little. It would partially address our kiteability as well.
You know what buffs I would like to see for Rogues?
Increased resistence to poison effects. No idea if this would have to be a straight buff to Nature resistance, or if it could be narrowed down to just poisons, but considering we use poisons every day, we should be at least slightly more resistent to their effects.
A Rogue's mark. Hunter's have one. Why not Rogues? Serves a dual purpose. 1) It lets party/raid members know which mob is getting sapped/ambushed/cheap shotted/whatever, and 2) it could be a party/raid buff similar to Hunter's Mark, where the Rogue's Mark adds melee AP to anyone attacking the marked mob.
Non-nature poisons. It's incredibly annoying to have part of our DPS supposedly based on the fact that we use poisons, and then have entire instances that are largely poison resistant/immune.
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Every class has a trade off for their CC abilities. It seems you want no trade off. Rogues can vanish to remove movement impairment effects now. You don't like that it's on a 5 minute timer? It would be overpowered if it wasn't.
The +10 energy bonus is on Nightslayer, not Bloodfang. I'm starting to wonder if you actually play a rogue.
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The problem with our CC abilities is that unless you're a stunlock rogue, it's practically impossible to stunlock a player. Plus, with the exception of Blind (which, I would like to point out is on a five minute timer and requires a reagent, so it's not like it's an "any time I want to" CC ability), none of them have any range at all.
Sap, if we're lucky, lasts for 10 seconds. Usually it lasts for less. And with it and Gouge, any damage breaks it. Compare that to Fear effects, where it seems it never breaks before the rogue is dead. Polymorph breaks on damage too, but it's basically the signal for the mage to back up to 30 yards and nuke us from orbit.
Our trade off, as you put it, is that we have to be in melee range to apply any of our CC abilities (except for Blind). Except that every class has easier applied ways to keep us out of melee range.
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The role of the rogue in a group is DPS. Not CC. If it was supposed to be CC, then yes, you would suck at it. You provide some optional CC, but it's typically not required. Does it make certain parts easier? Sure. Just like having a good tank does.
The job of the rogue in a group is to, after the tank has good and pissed off the monster, get in and kill it quickly before the tank expires. I have seen footage of five rogues in an instance destroying things massively. Yes, they did need a number of reagents, potions, etc., in order to get through, but it was still brutal.
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And see, that's my point on Rogue's CC. It's great if it's a one-on-one situation. Because we have a few options if one should run out early (like they do, frequently) or if they're resisted. But I can't recall the last time I saw one-on-one PvP. The BGs do not 'encourage' it.
And yes, five rogues working together can destroy all kinds of things. But look at that... five rogues. You know, I daresay you could replace it with five mages, or five warlocks, or five hunters or five fury warriors and it would be just as destroyed. Maybe a few seconds later. And in the case of everyone but the five fury warriors, they wouldn't have to worry about being healed.
We have to get in close, just like warriors, but we have much less survivability, in terms of armor and hps. If, somehow, we end up with aggro, we're dead. Yes, we have Feint and Vanish, but Feint can miss and Vanish is still buggy. Even if we don't end up with aggro, far too many mobs in end-game have PBAOEs or Cleaves, and we're not the first choices to be healed by the priests/shamans/pallies/druids.
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Five warlocks, maybe, maybe not. As soon as one draws aggro, he's toast. Five mages? Well, I've seen how fast they run through mana. So unless they've got something else, they are doomed.