The "Here's a new faction which is really just a subset of an existing faction and you get to rep-grind ALL OVER AGAIN!" in combination with "And hey, guess what that rep-grind gets engineers? FUCK ALL! Yup, once again, we've shat on engineers!"
Ummm.... dude... the only thing they offer as far as recipes go is jewelcrafting. It's a dranai/blood elf thing. Well and two enchants. Nothing for alchemy, smithing, leatherworking. So it's not like engineering was singled out for being left out.
And the two enchanting recipes? +15 defense to chest piece and shattering a void crystal into two prismatic shards.
Yeah, but it's not like engineering has been overwhelmed with new schematics, and it's just another "hey, here's another faction that completely ignores the most ignored profession". And frankly, with the ever increasing Tiers of gear, I doubt they could add enough armor/weapon recipes to make those professions look even mildly interesting compared to PHAT LOOTZ from new raid dungeons.
But the fact of the matter is, there's still stuff in the Burning Crusade expansion for those professions. Alchemy got a huge boost out of BC, and the various gear-smithing professions had things from day 1 which used Primal Nethers (Tiered weapons and armor). Engineers had to wait for months before they could bother fixing one of our schematics to actually have the correct components, and months after that before they added the goggles that required Nethers (AND they fucked those up too with the BoP requirements), and it took the better part of a year from the launch of BC to put in Engineering mounts, which, let's face it, were tits on a bull by that time. (If they had been in since the beginning, the gyrocopters would have been awesome. But by the time they were added, anyone who was level 60 when BC launched could have easily had two or three epic mounts.)
And Engineering is still the only profession which if you want to change specialties, requires resetting the skill to 0. Because some dipshit at Blizzard has a bug up their ass about it.
The main reason that engineering appears to get the short end of the stick is that, for the most part, only engineers get to use the toys.
Yes, anyone that can fire a gun (hunters and warriors) get to use the guns, but most of the other stuff requires you to be an engineer to use.
As a leatherworker, my druid can make stuff for other classes, with only some of the high end stuff being BoP. Likewise for my smith. Each crafting class, with the possible exception of Alchemy, has something, some status crafting item, that says "I have mastered my craft, bitches!". So those helmets, being the mastery item, shouldn't be traded.
The fact that you have to have skill in engineering to use most of the rest of the toys, doesn't take away from that.
No, one of the main reasons that Engineering DOES get the short end of the stick is that while every other profession in the game gets at least a couple dozen rep rewards from various factions, there are a sum total of two Engineering rep rewards in all of BC. And one of those is a goddamned smoke flare. Prior to BC there were... drum roll please... another two Engineering rep rewards. (I may hate the ever increasing types of reputation out there, but at least the other professions get something from it.)
As for the helmets.... they're already restricted by requiring Engineering. It wasn't like we were going to be able to make them for everyone anyway. Since they finally made Primal Nethers no longer BOP, it's actually possible to make the damn things without running the dungeons on Heroic mode.
Ok then. Other side of the stick. What would you like to see as rewards.
For leather working/smithing, there's new patterns for better armor and weapons and a couple extras (drums, shield spikes). Alchemy has slightly better potions, elixirs, etc. Enchanting a few new enchants (which to be honest, aren't really worth it overall). Jewelcrafting has a few new cuts. And let's be honest here. As the new profession, it's going to get all the love.
You can already make bombs, explosives to open chests, a wide variety of guns and other toys. I'm not saying there's not room for more stuff, but what are you missing?
The other craft skills are mostly class based. Don't take smithing if you can't wear plate or mail. Don't take tailoring if you are a plate wearer. Don't take leatherworking if your max armor isn't leather. Jewelcrafting breaks that as do both alchemy and engineering.
The difference is that most (not all) jewelcrafting output is usable by anyone. Same with Alchemy. Since useful engineering output is mostly limited to engineers, it's not going to get the love that other crafts do. Plain and simple.
Currently, the last explosive is at skill 335 out of 400 (unless you count the Super Sapper Charge at 340, which I don't, because it sucks, or the Frost Grenade, because well, the Frost Grenade sucketh), and does okay damage, at best. It also requires 4 adamantite bars to make 3 grenades, and I can think of better things to do with the adamantite.
Explosives to open chests? Only necessary if you don't have a rogue along, and even then, for BC chests, you would need the Elemental Seaforium charge, and you'd better pray that what's in the chest is worth the expense.
As for your argument that since engineering stuff is mostly limited to engineers, how would you react if Axesmith or Hammersmith produced items were kinda meh or didn't get the attention you think they deserved?
What I'd like to see is the following:
New Engineering trinkets: 1) Dragonlings. We had the mechanical, mithril mechanical and arcanite dragonling pre-BC. Post-BC, no new dragonlings. Yet Jewelcrafting has gotten pet trinkets that not only offer stats (mostly just attack power, IIRC), but are useable four times as frequently.
2) New resist trinkets. We had some pre-BC, but they got hit with the "if the attack comes from something over level X, they fail completely". Again, Jewelcrafting got versions just as good or better, because they have nice stamine bonuses, decent resist bonuses, and you can burn a charge to protect nearby party members. (Yes, they only have 10 charges, but with a couple exceptions, most of them are fairly cheap to make.)
3) Less overall of this "Hur hur, it's engineering. Let's make the expensive toy fail or backfire" crapola.
4) The same relatively easy way to switch specialties as every other profession. You can maybe argue that switching specialties in any profession should never have been allowed, but since they added it for all the other professions, they need to be equitable and have it for engineering as well. It is complete and utter bullshit that if I wanted to switch from Goblin Engineering to Gnomish Engineering that I have to skill up from 0 again, while the fucking Armorsmith can switch to Swordsmith and keep all his skill points.
5) Rep rewards. As I've said, I don't like the whole "You must be this well known to learn the magic of the green smoke flare" nonsense, but every other profession has dozens of rep rewards available to them in BC. We have two or three. And one of them is a goddamned smoke flare.
There is a lot of room for improvement in Engineering, but Blizzard doesn't seem to want to make the effort.
-1) If you don't have it, that's when you need it. No rogue and you need to open a door, boom. And as far as costs go, when I need 2xHardened Adamentite + 2x prismatic shards + 6x Arcane Dust (which really isn't a problem) to get one skill up in Smithing, you don't have the room to complain about engineering.
0) Look at what it takes to upgrade Thunder (or the other weaponsmithing end-all-be-alls) and let me know what you think of the expense. They aren't meh items, but look at what it takes to make and upgrade. Oh, and there's only one item in the branch you take that has the upgrade path for armorsmith (well, two, but one's mail, the other plate), and one each for axe/hammer/swordsmith.
1) Agree, you should see a little love there.
2) Don't know about those, but that's also the point of jewelcrafting. To make jewelry that does something. They make necklaces, rings, trinkets and gems (well, and totems or whatever they are called, but those are mostly worthless). That's what they are supposed to do. Very little of jewelcrafting is offensive in nature.
3) Agreed, but also remember this is largely a fantasy setting. The fact that it's gnomes and goblins who 'discovered' engineering. So consider the source.
4) That is boned and we've agreed on that before. So bringing it up again to reinforce your opinion on it doesn't help you any.
5) But the rep rewards should be appropriate to the faction. To keep with the story. Cenerion Expedition is going to offer mostly leather/druid stuff. Mag'har is going to be slanted towards the Hunter. Thallmar is going to be fighter/tank. Blood elves are going to lean towards magic. And so forth. Point out a faction in BC that should have engineering. If they put in a goblin faction somewhere, then that's where you will see some more engineering. And with the next expansion, I wouldn't be surprised to see some engineering there. Of course, with the new trade skill, Inscriptions, you are going to see that a whole lot as well.
They are trying to get a new expansion out and also trying to make sure that one trade skill doesn't tremendously overbalance things.
They could have put a bunch of Engineering stuff under the Consortium, and no one would have blinked twice at it being there. That should have been their easy way out. Besides which, the pre-BC Engineering items that came from rep rewards came from the fucking Zandalar tribe of trolls, so where's the appropriate to the faction stuff there?
They could have put a couple gun or ammo recipes under the Honor Hold/Thrallmar rep. They could have put something in the Aldor or Shat'trah city reps because hey, they got a fucking spaceship, right? Why couldn't they have something in Engineering.
And yeah, probably all the Smithing professions could use a few more specialty items. But they still aren't nearly as bad off as Engineering is. It used to be a fun and somewhat silly profession. But it's not even that any more.
Why would energy beings be concerned w/gadgets. And as far as the Zandalar, that's a pre-BC expansion and given the number of people you had to recruit to get anything done for them, you had to give every craft something. You will notice that there's no point beyond Revered except for Alchemy.
As for ammo recipies, not really a need. A few more dps on a gun doesn't make that much of a difference (it doesn't). You get more off of the upgrades to weapons anyway.
As for the Aldor, yes they could have had a recipe or two in there, because of the spaceship, but then they would have had to added just as many for the Scryers to keep things balanced. And there's no reason for the Scryers to have engineering.
hm. i haven't played in ages, and i never got very far in when i did, so my glance at the notes tells me nothing (as i dont know wtf they're talking about)
but you're the 2nd or 3rd person i know to mention this.
one girl said " Reading the 2.4 patch notes. WoW is turning into Fisher Price My First MMO."
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lookit what we killed last night!
http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/kizziekat/WoW/?action=view¤t=Losha-IllidanDown.jpg
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Now. How do we cheer you up. Steal you to the UK, and find you a better job?
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I have to go back through the patch notes and read up on classes other than Warrior/Druid (old main/new main).
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And the two enchanting recipes? +15 defense to chest piece and shattering a void crystal into two prismatic shards.
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But the fact of the matter is, there's still stuff in the Burning Crusade expansion for those professions. Alchemy got a huge boost out of BC, and the various gear-smithing professions had things from day 1 which used Primal Nethers (Tiered weapons and armor). Engineers had to wait for months before they could bother fixing one of our schematics to actually have the correct components, and months after that before they added the goggles that required Nethers (AND they fucked those up too with the BoP requirements), and it took the better part of a year from the launch of BC to put in Engineering mounts, which, let's face it, were tits on a bull by that time. (If they had been in since the beginning, the gyrocopters would have been awesome. But by the time they were added, anyone who was level 60 when BC launched could have easily had two or three epic mounts.)
And Engineering is still the only profession which if you want to change specialties, requires resetting the skill to 0. Because some dipshit at Blizzard has a bug up their ass about it.
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Yes, anyone that can fire a gun (hunters and warriors) get to use the guns, but most of the other stuff requires you to be an engineer to use.
As a leatherworker, my druid can make stuff for other classes, with only some of the high end stuff being BoP. Likewise for my smith. Each crafting class, with the possible exception of Alchemy, has something, some status crafting item, that says "I have mastered my craft, bitches!". So those helmets, being the mastery item, shouldn't be traded.
The fact that you have to have skill in engineering to use most of the rest of the toys, doesn't take away from that.
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As for the helmets.... they're already restricted by requiring Engineering. It wasn't like we were going to be able to make them for everyone anyway. Since they finally made Primal Nethers no longer BOP, it's actually possible to make the damn things without running the dungeons on Heroic mode.
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For leather working/smithing, there's new patterns for better armor and weapons and a couple extras (drums, shield spikes). Alchemy has slightly better potions, elixirs, etc. Enchanting a few new enchants (which to be honest, aren't really worth it overall). Jewelcrafting has a few new cuts. And let's be honest here. As the new profession, it's going to get all the love.
You can already make bombs, explosives to open chests, a wide variety of guns and other toys. I'm not saying there's not room for more stuff, but what are you missing?
The other craft skills are mostly class based. Don't take smithing if you can't wear plate or mail. Don't take tailoring if you are a plate wearer. Don't take leatherworking if your max armor isn't leather. Jewelcrafting breaks that as do both alchemy and engineering.
The difference is that most (not all) jewelcrafting output is usable by anyone. Same with Alchemy. Since useful engineering output is mostly limited to engineers, it's not going to get the love that other crafts do. Plain and simple.
Is it fair, no. Is it expected. Yes.
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Explosives to open chests? Only necessary if you don't have a rogue along, and even then, for BC chests, you would need the Elemental Seaforium charge, and you'd better pray that what's in the chest is worth the expense.
As for your argument that since engineering stuff is mostly limited to engineers, how would you react if Axesmith or Hammersmith produced items were kinda meh or didn't get the attention you think they deserved?
What I'd like to see is the following:
New Engineering trinkets:
1) Dragonlings. We had the mechanical, mithril mechanical and arcanite dragonling pre-BC. Post-BC, no new dragonlings. Yet Jewelcrafting has gotten pet trinkets that not only offer stats (mostly just attack power, IIRC), but are useable four times as frequently.
2) New resist trinkets. We had some pre-BC, but they got hit with the "if the attack comes from something over level X, they fail completely". Again, Jewelcrafting got versions just as good or better, because they have nice stamine bonuses, decent resist bonuses, and you can burn a charge to protect nearby party members. (Yes, they only have 10 charges, but with a couple exceptions, most of them are fairly cheap to make.)
3) Less overall of this "Hur hur, it's engineering. Let's make the expensive toy fail or backfire" crapola.
4) The same relatively easy way to switch specialties as every other profession. You can maybe argue that switching specialties in any profession should never have been allowed, but since they added it for all the other professions, they need to be equitable and have it for engineering as well. It is complete and utter bullshit that if I wanted to switch from Goblin Engineering to Gnomish Engineering that I have to skill up from 0 again, while the fucking Armorsmith can switch to Swordsmith and keep all his skill points.
5) Rep rewards. As I've said, I don't like the whole "You must be this well known to learn the magic of the green smoke flare" nonsense, but every other profession has dozens of rep rewards available to them in BC. We have two or three. And one of them is a goddamned smoke flare.
There is a lot of room for improvement in Engineering, but Blizzard doesn't seem to want to make the effort.
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0) Look at what it takes to upgrade Thunder (or the other weaponsmithing end-all-be-alls) and let me know what you think of the expense. They aren't meh items, but look at what it takes to make and upgrade. Oh, and there's only one item in the branch you take that has the upgrade path for armorsmith (well, two, but one's mail, the other plate), and one each for axe/hammer/swordsmith.
1) Agree, you should see a little love there.
2) Don't know about those, but that's also the point of jewelcrafting. To make jewelry that does something. They make necklaces, rings, trinkets and gems (well, and totems or whatever they are called, but those are mostly worthless). That's what they are supposed to do. Very little of jewelcrafting is offensive in nature.
3) Agreed, but also remember this is largely a fantasy setting. The fact that it's gnomes and goblins who 'discovered' engineering. So consider the source.
4) That is boned and we've agreed on that before. So bringing it up again to reinforce your opinion on it doesn't help you any.
5) But the rep rewards should be appropriate to the faction. To keep with the story. Cenerion Expedition is going to offer mostly leather/druid stuff. Mag'har is going to be slanted towards the Hunter. Thallmar is going to be fighter/tank. Blood elves are going to lean towards magic. And so forth. Point out a faction in BC that should have engineering. If they put in a goblin faction somewhere, then that's where you will see some more engineering. And with the next expansion, I wouldn't be surprised to see some engineering there. Of course, with the new trade skill, Inscriptions, you are going to see that a whole lot as well.
They are trying to get a new expansion out and also trying to make sure that one trade skill doesn't tremendously overbalance things.
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They could have put a couple gun or ammo recipes under the Honor Hold/Thrallmar rep. They could have put something in the Aldor or Shat'trah city reps because hey, they got a fucking spaceship, right? Why couldn't they have something in Engineering.
And yeah, probably all the Smithing professions could use a few more specialty items. But they still aren't nearly as bad off as Engineering is. It used to be a fun and somewhat silly profession. But it's not even that any more.
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As for ammo recipies, not really a need. A few more dps on a gun doesn't make that much of a difference (it doesn't). You get more off of the upgrades to weapons anyway.
As for the Aldor, yes they could have had a recipe or two in there, because of the spaceship, but then they would have had to added just as many for the Scryers to keep things balanced. And there's no reason for the Scryers to have engineering.
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but you're the 2nd or 3rd person i know to mention this.
one girl said " Reading the 2.4 patch notes. WoW is turning into Fisher Price My First MMO."
not sure what that means, but it's funny.