I'll preface this by saying I am also swords, using an AQR and Iblis, and in full bloodfang with 1022 unbuffed ap.
Sure, the patch didn't address some of our problems. Kiteability still sucks. Scaleability of energy is still bad. I think they could have rounded some talents out better for sword/fist rogues (namely aggression is too expensive). Cooldowns are still really long unless you take some pointless filler talents.
But, lets look at what we did get. Weapon Expertise is awesome. The plus weapon skill is gonna put raiding rogues into overdrive, espiacially non-dagger rogues, since itemization for plus skill for non-daggers is pretty much just maladath.
The moving of opperunity to tier 1 is really great for dagger rogues. Now they can go all the way up the tree to Adrenaline Rush should they so choose. (And they will)
The reworking of the subtley tree is really great for pvpers. They get some more defenses and that sweet plus ap talent. Serrated blades is nice too. Just a general increase in burst damage.
Consolidating the poison talent was also something that needed to occur.
Eviserate with a suitablt high ap will add a good amount of dps in a raid. It seems to get the full upgrade in dps you need to be on the high high end of ap, and for everyone else, not so much of a change.
So, in general, could they have done more? Yes. Did we get totally screwed? No. We got some stuff. It wasn't all we wanted but I'll take it. My general feeling is alot of the major changes to the class we are clamoring for present balance issues that can only really be addressed in the expansion.
I'm not saying there weren't good points in the review. There were. I'm really seriously looking at going back to heavy Subtlety spec. Plus, once the level cap goes up to 70 and everyone can have 10 more talent points, the new talents had better be damned good or Rogues are going to be really nasty with Subtlety.
But, you know, it's not so much as they didn't address the issues like kiteability and scaleability of enegry that really bothers me. It's not that their scaling of Evis, Rupture and Garrote is weak at the average AP levels. It's the absolute lack of communication we had. I swear, during every other class review, that class had a lot more communication from blue posters (Blizzard community managers on the official forums).
We went almost a month between posts by Drysc, who was supposed to be our communication bridge to the devs. Now, I don't know. Maybe he was talking to them every day, telling them about the biggest gripes, requests, or questions. But the simple fact of the matter is that even if he was, he wasn't communicating with us. It doesn't matter if it wouldn't have changed a thing. It really doesn't. But it's very irritating that he couldn't take a couple of minutes a few times a week... hell, even once a week to at least post on the Rogue forums.
Quote: Dodge? Worthless versus spells, poisons, diseases, AOEs, and ranged physical attacks. Which means it's worthless against all caster classes and Hunters. Plus, Warriors get Overpower, which means we get to suck 1000+ points of damage if we dodge.
First of all, you cannot put Physical and Spells in the same catergory for Dodge. Dodge applies only to Physical, while RESISTS applies to Spells. You need to get a clue on that fact. Hunters. They are the Anti-Melee Class. What do you expect? Warriors. Dodging is fine. Being Overpowered is also fine. Dying to Overpower constantly means you need more Stam. IT IS possible to beat a Warrior with ZERO Cooldowns with high dodge and health. Just eat those Overpowers and dodge everything else.
Quote: Crit Strike bonuses? Warriors get those too. Yeah, you don't get them as early in your talent tree as Rogues, but you get them. Plus, you have more armor (and thus more damage mitigation), more hps, and there's a lot more +defense gear for Warriors then Rogues.
All classes get Crit bonuses. Comparing to Warriors dmg mitigation, HP, and Def; we get Avoidance, Agro reduction, and DPS at a 80% threat level.
Quote: Reduce incoming damage? Only if we dodge. Which, to recap, is not the end-all, be-all line of defense that everyone thinks it is. Our armor rating, overall, sucks. Druids, the only other class that is restricted to leather, can at least go bear form and have tons of armor. And if you mean the talents in the new Subtlety tree, you have to go pretty deep in that tree to get a small chance to 'dodge' ranged attacks and spells, which is going to reduce your damage dealing abilities by a large amount.
Bears are sponges and they ALWAYS take dmg. No avoidance FTL. Leave the tanking to the appropriate classes.
Quote: Gain back energy faster? Adreneline Rush is the only thing that does that (other then Thistle Tea, and hey, you have Rage potions), and you have to spec for it, and it's on a timer. And if you're specing for Adreneline Rush, you're not getting that spell-dodging ability.
Adrenaline Rush is not a means to REGEN energy but to increase burst DPS. DPS Spec versus Survivability Spec.
Quote: Increase max energy? You can only mean Vigor. Which is fucking useless unless you have 5/8 Bloodfang.
It's Nightslayer set but the +10 Energy is only really useful for PvP and only uselful for openers. In Real PvP and PvE your energy bar starts at 0
Quote: Massively reduce energy costs? Improved Sinister Strike 2/2 reduces the cost of Sinister Strike from 45 to 40. That's it. Unless you have certain high level sets.
This has remained unchanged for almost 2 years. It's a Staple Talent pt for most specs.
Quote: How about the problems we have with our cooldowns? Vanish. Five minutes and a reagant. Doesn't work a lot of the time in PvP. Fails in PvE some times as well. Compare that to Feign Death, which is every 30 seconds, no reagent, and works almost all the time in PvE, and in PvP, they have the lovely "Working as intended" Feign Death/Freezing Trap bullshit.
Blind, Evasion, Sprint...
Yes we are a Cooldown reliant class. I would think these skills were intended for group PVP anyways. So 5 mins is rather cheap when your are playing 15 mins - 2 hrs BGs. I don't think you can win a war with any less time than that.
Quote: Throw in that we're the only class without a buff to give to the rest of the party/raid, our armor rating can actually be lower then cloth casters, thanks to their armor buffs, we can have less HP then Warlocks (and they're one of the classes that can most easily kite us, Hunters being the other one), and a number of other factors, and you can probably see why we're pissed.
First to kill, First to die. We are the cannon fodders. We go in do some dmg. That's all we can do and what we were design to do. Maybe you missed this when you rolled a Rogue.
Honestly if you can do better then just quit this game and go on to create the "Perfectly Balanced World of Warcraft: As It Should Have Been." Blizzard has already sucked you in for this long. I am amazed you still play.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Hi, I play in Mike's guild on Windrunner.
I'll preface this by saying I am also swords, using an AQR and Iblis, and in full bloodfang with 1022 unbuffed ap.
Sure, the patch didn't address some of our problems. Kiteability still sucks. Scaleability of energy is still bad. I think they could have rounded some talents out better for sword/fist rogues (namely aggression is too expensive). Cooldowns are still really long unless you take some pointless filler talents.
But, lets look at what we did get. Weapon Expertise is awesome. The plus weapon skill is gonna put raiding rogues into overdrive, espiacially non-dagger rogues, since itemization for plus skill for non-daggers is pretty much just maladath.
The moving of opperunity to tier 1 is really great for dagger rogues. Now they can go all the way up the tree to Adrenaline Rush should they so choose. (And they will)
The reworking of the subtley tree is really great for pvpers. They get some more defenses and that sweet plus ap talent. Serrated blades is nice too. Just a general increase in burst damage.
Consolidating the poison talent was also something that needed to occur.
Eviserate with a suitablt high ap will add a good amount of dps in a raid. It seems to get the full upgrade in dps you need to be on the high high end of ap, and for everyone else, not so much of a change.
So, in general, could they have done more? Yes. Did we get totally screwed? No. We got some stuff. It wasn't all we wanted but I'll take it. My general feeling is alot of the major changes to the class we are clamoring for present balance issues that can only really be addressed in the expansion.
no subject
But, you know, it's not so much as they didn't address the issues like kiteability and scaleability of enegry that really bothers me. It's not that their scaling of Evis, Rupture and Garrote is weak at the average AP levels. It's the absolute lack of communication we had. I swear, during every other class review, that class had a lot more communication from blue posters (Blizzard community managers on the official forums).
We went almost a month between posts by Drysc, who was supposed to be our communication bridge to the devs. Now, I don't know. Maybe he was talking to them every day, telling them about the biggest gripes, requests, or questions. But the simple fact of the matter is that even if he was, he wasn't communicating with us. It doesn't matter if it wouldn't have changed a thing. It really doesn't. But it's very irritating that he couldn't take a couple of minutes a few times a week... hell, even once a week to at least post on the Rogue forums.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2006-08-22 07:26 pm (UTC)(link)Dodge? Worthless versus spells, poisons, diseases, AOEs, and ranged physical attacks. Which means it's worthless against all caster classes and Hunters. Plus, Warriors get Overpower, which means we get to suck 1000+ points of damage if we dodge.
First of all, you cannot put Physical and Spells in the same catergory for Dodge. Dodge applies only to Physical, while RESISTS applies to Spells. You need to get a clue on that fact. Hunters. They are the Anti-Melee Class. What do you expect? Warriors. Dodging is fine. Being Overpowered is also fine. Dying to Overpower constantly means you need more Stam. IT IS possible to beat a Warrior with ZERO Cooldowns with high dodge and health. Just eat those Overpowers and dodge everything else.
Quote:
Crit Strike bonuses? Warriors get those too. Yeah, you don't get them as early in your talent tree as Rogues, but you get them. Plus, you have more armor (and thus more damage mitigation), more hps, and there's a lot more +defense gear for Warriors then Rogues.
All classes get Crit bonuses. Comparing to Warriors dmg mitigation, HP, and Def; we get Avoidance, Agro reduction, and DPS at a 80% threat level.
Quote:
Reduce incoming damage? Only if we dodge. Which, to recap, is not the end-all, be-all line of defense that everyone thinks it is. Our armor rating, overall, sucks. Druids, the only other class that is restricted to leather, can at least go bear form and have tons of armor. And if you mean the talents in the new Subtlety tree, you have to go pretty deep in that tree to get a small chance to 'dodge' ranged attacks and spells, which is going to reduce your damage dealing abilities by a large amount.
Bears are sponges and they ALWAYS take dmg. No avoidance FTL. Leave the tanking to the appropriate classes.
Quote:
Gain back energy faster? Adreneline Rush is the only thing that does that (other then Thistle Tea, and hey, you have Rage potions), and you have to spec for it, and it's on a timer. And if you're specing for Adreneline Rush, you're not getting that spell-dodging ability.
Adrenaline Rush is not a means to REGEN energy but to increase burst DPS. DPS Spec versus Survivability Spec.
Quote:
Increase max energy? You can only mean Vigor. Which is fucking useless unless you have 5/8 Bloodfang.
It's Nightslayer set but the +10 Energy is only really useful for PvP and only uselful for openers. In Real PvP and PvE your energy bar starts at 0
Quote:
Massively reduce energy costs? Improved Sinister Strike 2/2 reduces the cost of Sinister Strike from 45 to 40. That's it. Unless you have certain high level sets.
This has remained unchanged for almost 2 years. It's a Staple Talent pt for most specs.
Quote:
How about the problems we have with our cooldowns? Vanish. Five minutes and a reagant. Doesn't work a lot of the time in PvP. Fails in PvE some times as well. Compare that to Feign Death, which is every 30 seconds, no reagent, and works almost all the time in PvE, and in PvP, they have the lovely "Working as intended" Feign Death/Freezing Trap bullshit.
Blind, Evasion, Sprint...
Yes we are a Cooldown reliant class. I would think these skills were intended for group PVP anyways. So 5 mins is rather cheap when your are playing 15 mins - 2 hrs BGs. I don't think you can win a war with any less time than that.
Quote:
Throw in that we're the only class without a buff to give to the rest of the party/raid, our armor rating can actually be lower then cloth casters, thanks to their armor buffs, we can have less HP then Warlocks (and they're one of the classes that can most easily kite us, Hunters being the other one), and a number of other factors, and you can probably see why we're pissed.
First to kill, First to die. We are the cannon fodders. We go in do some dmg. That's all we can do and what we were design to do. Maybe you missed this when you rolled a Rogue.
Honestly if you can do better then just quit this game and go on to create the "Perfectly Balanced World of Warcraft: As It Should Have Been." Blizzard has already sucked you in for this long. I am amazed you still play.