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Spider-man movie musings
Okay, Spider-Man 2 comes out next week, and me and one of my co-workers (whose name really is Thor) were talking about it. We started out with how well the casting was done, not only for this movie but for the first one. Molina was an excellent choice for Doc Ock, even if (according to Thor) they didn't use the green and orange jumpsuit costume from the comic book.
But we got to thinking...
Spider-Man made a lot of money. Spider-Man 2 stands to make a lot of money, as most other movie companies are not putting any big films against it for the first week or so. So it stands to reason that they are at least going to make one more movie after this, and in fact, they may ride this horse for as far as it goes.
So that got me and Thor to talking. On the (not very big) assumption that there will be a third Spider-Man movie, who would be the villain in that one?
Okay, let's look at facts:
1st movie: Green Goblin - one of the original Spider-Man villains from the comics, and one of the most influential, at least in the comics as he was responsible for the death of Gwen Stacy.
2nd movie: Doctor Octopus - also one of the original Spider-Man villains. Over the years, he has tried to squash Spider-Man on numerous occassions, and saved Spidey's life on a couple others.
3rd movie: ????
Looking at some of the other early Spider-Man villains, well... we can't help but laugh. Even with the costume updates to Green Goblin and Doc Ock in the movies, no matter what, Electro and Shocker will look stupid. Also, let's face it... they're more of a "have 5 other villains helping in trying to kick Spidey's ass" Sinister Six kind of villain. Same with Vulture. I mean, a creepy old man who can fly as a villain? Sure, it works in the comics... usually. But not on the big screen.
Molten Man? No. Some really interesting possible CGI effects, but no.
Sandman? See Molten Man.
Hydro-Man? Oh, god, please, no.
Rhino? Again, no. Besides, he's almost as much an Iron Man villain as a Spider-Man one.
Beetle? Don't see it, sorry.
Kingpin? Sorry, you had your chance in Daredevil.
Chameleon? *buzzz* try again.
Scorpion? Hrm, now there's a possibility. A villain created by JJJ in the comics, possibly by Oscorp in the movie. There is some potential there, but it's another battlesuit character, much like the Green Goblin was presented.
Kraven the Hunter? Interesting, but probably not. The Kraven storyline ends with him committing suicide. Not exactly the best thing to present in a hero movie.
Mysterio? Again, interesting CGI options, but I really doubt ol' Fishbowl Head will be making an appearance.
Hobgoblin? Doubt it. There's a whole lot of confusing story behind the various people who called themselves Hobgoblin, and it probably wouldn't translate well to film.
Green Goblin again? Okay, there are two options here.
1) Harry Osborne as the Green Goblin - in the comics, Harry did go insane (more then once) and don the mask his father first wore. However, this is predicated on Harry knowing that his father was the Green Goblin. Unless Harry finds this out in the second movie, it's not happening in the third.
2) The return of Norman Osborne - again, in the comics, Norman returned to life (actually, according to the retcon, he never was really dead) and the comics during the last part of the Clone Saga. However, the Clone Saga is widely regarded as one of the worst Spider-Man storylines ever by the fans, and let's face it... there are a lot of villains to throw at Spider-Man without bringing back Norman.
However, Hollywood is not always known for bright moves, so I suspect we will see the Green Goblin again, but probably not until movie #4 (save perhaps for flashbacks).
Venom: A bit later in comic continuity then many of the other villains, but probably one of the more popular ones. A few problems exist to resolve in the comic->movie transition.
1) Eddie Brock becoming Venom requires the subplot of him hating both Peter Parker and Spider-Man. In the comics, this was accomplished through the Sin-Eater storyline, in which Eddie Brock was fired after filing a story identifying the wrong man as a serial killer known as the Sin-Eater. Now, I just do not see them using this sub-plot. I don't. So if there is a movie version of Venom (and yeah, we're probably going to see it happen), they will have to script a new reason for Eddie Brock to hate Parker.
2) The symbiote. In the comics, it is the new "costume" Spider-Man gets during the Secret Wars. Now, considering that the only other hero even mentioned in the first movie was Superman, I don't think we're going to have the Secret Wars take place. Ergo, Spider-Man cannot go off-world to acquire the alien symbiote, later reject it, and for it to eventually find Eddie Brock. Therefore, they will also have to script a new origin for the symbiote. (Thor favours the "genetic manipulation of a sample of Spider-Man's blood to somehow create it". I favour the alien traveler via meteorite school of bad science fiction.)
Regardless, if they are going to have Venom be the villain in the third movie, they will have to start working on building the story a bit in the second movie. At the very least, Eddie Brock will have to appear. (And Carnage can't even think about appearing until after Venom.)
The Lizard? Interesting... Dr. Connors was already mentioned in the first movie, and if they actually build on this in the second, he could be just as interesting a villain as the Green Goblin was. From the comics, the Lizard was always trying to kill Spider-Man, whereas Spider-Man was always trying to capture the Lizard in order to return him to his human form of Dr. Connors. Again, some interesting CGI possibilities, and it makes for interesting fight sequences, as Spider-Man is not trying to permanently harm the Lizard (you know, as opposed to the beating he delivers to the Green Goblin, or one will assume, Dr. Octopus).
Basically, if they build on the Dr. Connors idea, then odds are, it's Lizard for the third movie. Otherwise, it's probably going to be Venom.
But we got to thinking...
Spider-Man made a lot of money. Spider-Man 2 stands to make a lot of money, as most other movie companies are not putting any big films against it for the first week or so. So it stands to reason that they are at least going to make one more movie after this, and in fact, they may ride this horse for as far as it goes.
So that got me and Thor to talking. On the (not very big) assumption that there will be a third Spider-Man movie, who would be the villain in that one?
Okay, let's look at facts:
1st movie: Green Goblin - one of the original Spider-Man villains from the comics, and one of the most influential, at least in the comics as he was responsible for the death of Gwen Stacy.
2nd movie: Doctor Octopus - also one of the original Spider-Man villains. Over the years, he has tried to squash Spider-Man on numerous occassions, and saved Spidey's life on a couple others.
3rd movie: ????
Looking at some of the other early Spider-Man villains, well... we can't help but laugh. Even with the costume updates to Green Goblin and Doc Ock in the movies, no matter what, Electro and Shocker will look stupid. Also, let's face it... they're more of a "have 5 other villains helping in trying to kick Spidey's ass" Sinister Six kind of villain. Same with Vulture. I mean, a creepy old man who can fly as a villain? Sure, it works in the comics... usually. But not on the big screen.
Molten Man? No. Some really interesting possible CGI effects, but no.
Sandman? See Molten Man.
Hydro-Man? Oh, god, please, no.
Rhino? Again, no. Besides, he's almost as much an Iron Man villain as a Spider-Man one.
Beetle? Don't see it, sorry.
Kingpin? Sorry, you had your chance in Daredevil.
Chameleon? *buzzz* try again.
Scorpion? Hrm, now there's a possibility. A villain created by JJJ in the comics, possibly by Oscorp in the movie. There is some potential there, but it's another battlesuit character, much like the Green Goblin was presented.
Kraven the Hunter? Interesting, but probably not. The Kraven storyline ends with him committing suicide. Not exactly the best thing to present in a hero movie.
Mysterio? Again, interesting CGI options, but I really doubt ol' Fishbowl Head will be making an appearance.
Hobgoblin? Doubt it. There's a whole lot of confusing story behind the various people who called themselves Hobgoblin, and it probably wouldn't translate well to film.
Green Goblin again? Okay, there are two options here.
1) Harry Osborne as the Green Goblin - in the comics, Harry did go insane (more then once) and don the mask his father first wore. However, this is predicated on Harry knowing that his father was the Green Goblin. Unless Harry finds this out in the second movie, it's not happening in the third.
2) The return of Norman Osborne - again, in the comics, Norman returned to life (actually, according to the retcon, he never was really dead) and the comics during the last part of the Clone Saga. However, the Clone Saga is widely regarded as one of the worst Spider-Man storylines ever by the fans, and let's face it... there are a lot of villains to throw at Spider-Man without bringing back Norman.
However, Hollywood is not always known for bright moves, so I suspect we will see the Green Goblin again, but probably not until movie #4 (save perhaps for flashbacks).
Venom: A bit later in comic continuity then many of the other villains, but probably one of the more popular ones. A few problems exist to resolve in the comic->movie transition.
1) Eddie Brock becoming Venom requires the subplot of him hating both Peter Parker and Spider-Man. In the comics, this was accomplished through the Sin-Eater storyline, in which Eddie Brock was fired after filing a story identifying the wrong man as a serial killer known as the Sin-Eater. Now, I just do not see them using this sub-plot. I don't. So if there is a movie version of Venom (and yeah, we're probably going to see it happen), they will have to script a new reason for Eddie Brock to hate Parker.
2) The symbiote. In the comics, it is the new "costume" Spider-Man gets during the Secret Wars. Now, considering that the only other hero even mentioned in the first movie was Superman, I don't think we're going to have the Secret Wars take place. Ergo, Spider-Man cannot go off-world to acquire the alien symbiote, later reject it, and for it to eventually find Eddie Brock. Therefore, they will also have to script a new origin for the symbiote. (Thor favours the "genetic manipulation of a sample of Spider-Man's blood to somehow create it". I favour the alien traveler via meteorite school of bad science fiction.)
Regardless, if they are going to have Venom be the villain in the third movie, they will have to start working on building the story a bit in the second movie. At the very least, Eddie Brock will have to appear. (And Carnage can't even think about appearing until after Venom.)
The Lizard? Interesting... Dr. Connors was already mentioned in the first movie, and if they actually build on this in the second, he could be just as interesting a villain as the Green Goblin was. From the comics, the Lizard was always trying to kill Spider-Man, whereas Spider-Man was always trying to capture the Lizard in order to return him to his human form of Dr. Connors. Again, some interesting CGI possibilities, and it makes for interesting fight sequences, as Spider-Man is not trying to permanently harm the Lizard (you know, as opposed to the beating he delivers to the Green Goblin, or one will assume, Dr. Octopus).
Basically, if they build on the Dr. Connors idea, then odds are, it's Lizard for the third movie. Otherwise, it's probably going to be Venom.
no subject
I have a suspicion that this second one is going to be really good. I have almost no logical reason to say that other than I think Rainey wants to give us something more this time around.
no subject
... and "more this time around" = "not at all homoerotive"
no subject
no subject
JJ's son is in the movie. In the cartoon, they used his being an astronaut to bring the symbiote to earth. I think this is the angle they'd use for Venom, so we're quite possibly looking at it for the third film. Expect something like this:
The shuttle crashes, and Spidey is there to help with the rescue. He finds the symbiote amidst the wreckage. Expect 30-45 mins of Spidey in black costume, and a probably theme they'd play on is Spider-Man getting wreckless with his powers. He'd probably go to Dr. Conners to help remove it, but somehow JJ's son would end up with it, since in this movie Mary Jane and JJ's son have a sort of a thing. Then there would be terrorizing of Spidey's loved ones, and finally a showdown.
no subject
Excellent. As long as they can come up with a plausible way to introduce Venom, then it's not a bad thing.