kierthos: (Default)
kierthos ([personal profile] kierthos) wrote2008-06-05 11:43 am

So, um, yeah

There are some goofy-ass rules in 4th edition.

[identity profile] egearman.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 03:54 pm (UTC)(link)
They are trying to make it more MMO-like. It's going to fail.

[identity profile] kierthos.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 04:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I'm already reading the new Player's Guide and while it has some neat things, a lot of it is seriously fucked up.

[identity profile] egearman.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 04:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Including the fact that you can't actually recreate the characters that they put out sheets for?

How exactly does a first level wizard end up with 20 hp?

Goodbye multi-classing. Goodbye actually taking odd-ball spells. Goodbye anything resembling role-playing in D&D.

I've still got my 3.5 books (well, a friend has about half my books). I don't think I'm picking up the new ones.

[identity profile] kierthos.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 04:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, Wizards start with 10 + Constitution score in HPs. (Not Constitution modifier.... Constitution score.) They gain 4 HPs per level. And neither Con score nor Con mod seem to figure into HPs per level.

Fighters and Paladins start with 15 + Con score and gain 6 HPs per level.

[identity profile] egearman.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 05:51 pm (UTC)(link)
I saw Con score there and yet still read it as Con Mod.

[identity profile] kierthos.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 06:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, well, you also didn't seem to pick up that I have the Player's Guide (and the DMG, and the MM) a day before they're supposed to be released.

[identity profile] egearman.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 06:11 pm (UTC)(link)
And Amazon delivers. So what? Or someone broke street date. Again, so what?

[identity profile] kierthos.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 06:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Amazon is apparently not even shipping any 4th ed. books out until tomorrow. And no one to my knowledge broke street date.

[identity profile] egearman.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 06:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Ok, so how did you get them? What were you a beta tester of the new edition? The only way I'm reading those books is if you loan them to me.

[identity profile] kierthos.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 06:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Alas, no, I was not a beta tester...

I has PDFs.

[identity profile] kierthos.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 06:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Here's another odd thing. Fighters don't start with proficiency in wearing plate armor. You have to take a feat to do so, and the prereq for the feat is that you have to be able to wear scale armor (which Fighters do start with).

Paladins, on the other hand, do start with the proficiency in wearing plate armor, which only costs 50 gold now.

[identity profile] cuddlycthulhu.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 04:01 pm (UTC)(link)
You mean beyond no dual-classing?

[identity profile] kierthos.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 04:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, yes and no. You can't ever pick up a second class, but you can pick up multiclass Feats for one other class (but if you take a multiclass Fighter feat, you can't ever take a multiclass "any class other then Fighter" feat). Those feats let you acquire certain abilities from that other class, but they aren't anywhere near as cool as the same ability for that class.

Example: There's a feat called Initiate of the Faith (multiclass Cleric). It gives you training in the Religion skill, lets you use a holy symbol as an implement (which is apparently something like a spell component or focus, I really haven't figured that out yet), and lets you use an ability called "Healing Word" once per day.

Now, someone who is actually in the Cleric class gets all that as part of their 1st level abilities, but can use "Healing Word" twice per encounter. So the multiclass Feat gives you a little bit of the Cleric's abilities for healing, but it's nowhere near as cool as what the Cleric can do.

Of course, thanks to these things called Healing Surges, you aren't dependent on the Cleric for all your healing any more.

[identity profile] cuddlycthulhu.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 04:24 pm (UTC)(link)
...Yeah, that sounds all kinds of weird.

A few friends of mine have been pushing for me to pick up Pathfinder, which looks like version 3.5.2 under the OGL.

[identity profile] the-corruption.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 04:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Yea, no Gnomes (I LIKE Gnomes), no Barbarians, no Druids, TWO kinds of elves, magic that ISN'T magic...

Hell, I never left 3.0, looks like I'll stay there too. Screw it, I still have my 1.0 stuff. Never was anything really wrong with the original rules.

OH! And they're dropping Greyhawk COMPLETELY, and going to Realms as their official world. And get this, it'll be set WAY after the time of Troubles, and Magic is dead again....

So... NO WIZARDS can be played in Realms. Well, you can make a Wizard, but he's not ACTUALLY casting spells, he's using his "ABILITIES".

Epic FAIL.

[identity profile] kierthos.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 05:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, the Player's Guide doesn't seem to indicate that it's Realms (but hey, who knows) considering that some of the Deities mentioned are Kord, Pelor and Vecna.

And Gnomes and Half-Orcs, not to mention Barbarians, Druids and Monks (and probably Bards and Psions) are supposed to be added in an upcoming book or two.

[identity profile] the-corruption.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 05:46 pm (UTC)(link)
They've already set s a date where Living Greyhawk characters should wrap things up.

And plot committee and writers have already been sent packets on Forgotten Realms, with dates, notable NPCs (btw, Elminster is a no show), and the like.

I hate Realms, and have always hated realms. I'm an old Greyhawk man. And I've played plenty in Realms, it was Jeremy's go-to world.

As far as future update books, nice try WoTC, but I'm too old to fall for that anymore. Barbarians and Druids are CORE classes. Anti-paladins (or Blackgaurds) are update book classes.

[identity profile] egearman.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 05:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't mind the missing gnomes. But that's me. Let's just see if bards stay lost as well.

And you still have a number of my 3.5 books. Not that I have the spare bookshelves to store them currently.

We agree on Greyhawk though. It's one of the best campaign worlds, if not the best.

[identity profile] the-corruption.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 06:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Greyhawk, Ravenloft, and SpellJammer. That's all I ever need.

Oh, yea, and my own Campaign worlds, like Lohr.

[identity profile] kierthos.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 06:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Am I weird for liking Al-Qadim? I mean, yeah, the rest of Toril can suck it... but Al-Qadim was neat.

[identity profile] the-corruption.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 06:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Nope, that's fine.

My all-time favorite module series was the Desert of Desolation.

[identity profile] mithras.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 10:28 pm (UTC)(link)
I still have damn near mint copies of the 1st edition Players Guide, DMG and Monster Manual.

No idea how much they're worth, tho.

wtf

[identity profile] john-story.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 05:36 pm (UTC)(link)
wtf, is all I have to say.

Re: wtf

[identity profile] kierthos.livejournal.com 2008-06-05 06:30 pm (UTC)(link)
No, no, you have to say more.