Whoa

[kierthos]

Blackwater guards in Baghdad shooting surrender.

Odd, isn't it, that it took until the last days of the Bush administration for this to happen?

And, this is a curious point.... of the five guards who have been identified, four of them are noted as "former" Marines or Army... one is noted as a veteran of the Army. Why the difference in terminology? Dishonorable discharges? Writer's choice? Something else?

Comments

[delwin.livejournal.com]

'veteran' = served in the war
'former' = was in the armed services

The first qualifies you for things like the VFW. The second does not. Likely the first served out his time and the other four were discharged for one reason or another.

[kierthos.livejournal.com]

I always thought veteran meant you were in the Armed Forces, regardless of whether you were in a combat zone or you spent the whole time shuffling paper or peeling potatoes.

[delwin.livejournal.com]

If you were in during a declared war. The other three may well have been out of the armed forces since before 2003.

[kierthos.livejournal.com]

Huh.... well, damn. Did not know that.

[delwin.livejournal.com]

VFW actually has stricter standards - you have to served in the warzones. I don't know if the press holds to that standard or not.

[xambrius.livejournal.com]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you're wrong. A veteran is anyone who served in the armed forces regardless of the character of his/her discharge, whether or not he/she served during peacetime or war, whether or not he/she served in a theater of combat operations and whether or not he/she saw combat.

I'm a veteran, and I have tons of army paperwork and VA paperwork to prove it.

--
Tim Harris
The Seeker
Time Lord

[xambrius.livejournal.com]

You thought correctly.

--
Tim Harris
The Seeker
Time Lord

[delwin.livejournal.com]

*blink*

Huh, they told my ex-wife differently when she applied.

Have the rules changed or did someone feed her a line?

[xambrius.livejournal.com]

There's a difference between being a veteran, full stop, and being a veteran of a particular war, campaign, operation, service, unit, MOS or elite qualification. I'm a veteran. So is Pop. We're both US Army veterans (service). We're both Infantry veterans (MOS). My friend Neil is a US Army veteran and an Infantry veteran, but he is also an Airborne veteran and a Ranger veteran (elite qualification) whereas I am not. My Uncle Joe Ballard is a US Navy veteran, an Airborne veteran, a SEAL veteran and a Vietnam veteran.

The VFW is not for all veterans. It's for veterans of foreign wars, and the VFW has its own specifications as to what counts as being a veteran of a foreign war. I do not qualify. My Uncle Joe does. Neil probably does, but we'd have to check to make sure (he served in Afghanistan and Iraq). Pop might since he served during the Korean Police Action, but he might not since he served in the US and Germany rather than the actual Korean Theater of Operations.

It's all fiddly and finicky. If your ex-wife was refused admission, it's not because she's not a veteran. It's because she doesn't qualify as a veteran of a foreign war according to whatever funky standards the VFW uses to determine what counts as participation in a foreign war by US military personnel.

--
Tim Harris
The Seeker
Time Lord

[xambrius.livejournal.com]

Oh, before I forget...

Marines insist on a distinction between "former" Marine (by which they mean "Marine no longer in active service who left active service under honorable conditions") and "ex" Marine (by which they mean "scumbag who was kicked out of the Corps for being a scumbag"). Marines credit the Corps with a sort of "papal infallibility" when it comes to booting people out of the Corps, and that leads to circular reasoning where "ex" Marines are concerned.

We Army vets who realize what "former" and "ex" mean in the real English language just smile at the jarheads. Trying to explain their error to them just isn't worth the effort. Trust me on that one.

--
Tim Harris
The Seeker
Time Lord

[delwin.livejournal.com]

Actually she was told she could be accepted as she was on one of the LHA's in the Gulf when the invasion started. They were really particular about it though.